Obama Refused The VP Ticket

There are many blog discussion going on regarding Obama refused the VP ticket. Many Obama supporters took the cue from him and found the offer disgusting. But I see it differently.

The democrat party is now split in 50/50. No matter what Obama supporters want to believe, Hillary got 50% of the popular vote. The Democrat party need to unit and come up with the winning ticket for general election. And the unity ticket is the most clear way to achieve that. We could all agree that this is the ticket that GOP most fear.

Hillary has done her part to unit the party. She recognized that Obama also has 50% support from Democrat voter and deserves to be on the final ticket. Obama did not do his part. If he truly believes that he deserves the top ticket and have the party interest at heart, he could have counter offer the VP ticket.

Instead of touting and mocking Hillary offer, he could have said that "I truly hope that Sen. Clinton would also accept the VP ticket that I will offer". He apparently doesn't have the interest of the Democrat party in mind. He just rejected one of the two possibilities to create the unstoppable ticket for Democrat party.

And if he did offer her the VP ticket later, I don't think it will be easy for her to accept it given his mocking response.  And I don't think Hillary's supporters appreciate Obama ridiculed the VP offer.  Instead of trying to unit the party, he just drove it further apart.  No matter what Obama likes it or not, Hillary has half of the Democrat voters who strongly support her during his 12 straight win.   He needs to recognize their decision and earns their votes to win the general election.  To assume that those voters would just simple switch to support him is far from reality.

 



Display:


Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 2)

Hey didn't you hear ,

She has had them took , bamboozled , hood winked.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:02:47 PM EST

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (none / 0)

Only trying. People see through it.
by Becky G on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:09:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (none / 0)

So is everyone quoting Malcolm X?


by macmcd on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:43:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (none / 0)

Only David Axelrove... apparently.


by Catriley sez on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:10:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

She does indeed (none / 0)


by bigdcdem on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:13:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 1)

He has been bamboozled us.   I thought he was a unifier, but his action spoke differently.


by JoeySky18 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 08:28:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 1)

He's just saying what he's got to say at this point.  None of this is binding.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:03:48 PM EST

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 1)

But the problem is he didn't just "say" it, the media used the terms "ridicule" and "mocking." Hardly the elder statesman approach.


by Catriley sez on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:11:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

He didn't ridicule. But I will. (1.00 / 2)

I thought Obama was quite polite about it.  But if you think about it, how much fun could it be as Vice President where you already have "two for the price of one".  

With Hillary are President and Bill as First Dude (or whatever), there will be great confusion with the staff, the Cabinet, the Congress and with foreign leaders as to who is really running the country.

In spite of Hillary's warrant that there will be no more scandels, I think its pretty reasonable to assume that their psycho-drama marriage will continue on the front pages for at least 4 years.  Maybe 8.

So how awful would that be for their vice-president?  I would suggest that if she wins the nomination, she goes with Dr. Phil.


by smoker1 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:03:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 1)

i think the problem with this in general is the the offer is disingenuous meant to belittle Obama, making him seem like the kid who needs to be swooped up by the adults in the race and "taken care" of for awhile.  They are trying to act like they are in charge,in the lead calling the shots when infact they understand in reality that is them behind.  How does the person in 2nd placed offer the guy in 1st place the 2nd place job?  They are attempting to speak from a position of authoirty in which they do not possess.    


by affratboy22 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:02:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (none / 0)

He means it.  So did JFK.


by Shaun Appleby on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 06:46:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 1)

The problem is that so many of you are utterly convinced of Obama's deep conviction on any number of issues, while it's plain to the rest of us that you simply have no way of knowing either way.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 10:36:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (none / 0)

We'll see.


by Shaun Appleby on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:44:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What's with the "DemocRAT Party" (nt) (2.00 / 1)


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:07:00 PM EST

But Hillary did not get 50% of the popular vote (2.00 / 1)

#1 Nobody knows what the popular vote is.

#2 In those states where we know the popular vote neither candidate has 50%. Obama has 49.4% and Clinton has 47.1% for a difference of 2.3%. Clearly, Obama leads in the popular vote we know.

#3 The popular vote has nothing to do with determining the nominee. Delegation formats were created to mimic the nature of the electoral college in order to provide a candidate more likely to win the in the electoral college.

#4 We will never know what the popular vote was.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:07:03 PM EST

Re: Hillary and the actual popular vote (2.00 / 1)

Whether you want to include it or not, an awful lot of people in Florida voted because they were all listed on the ballot and Obama was the only one who campaigned in the state.  That being the case, you need to check your math and quit using Karl Rove math.  ;-)


by macmcd on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:13:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary and the actual popular vote (2.00 / 1)

You;'re including a beauty contest and not coucuses that actually count?

Dude, start racking up every internet straw poll, too, because thye mean every bit as much as the beauty contests in Michigan and Florida!


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:24:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary and the actual popular vote (2.00 / 2)

If Florida was a beauty contest, why did Obama campaign there?


by macmcd on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:47:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary and the actual popular vote (none / 0)

He didn't campaign there.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:50:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary and the actual popular vote (2.00 / 2)

His ads ran for 10 days before the primary in FL.


by JoeySky18 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 08:29:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary and the actual popular vote (2.00 / 1)

Caucuses.. pffft. biggest joke in our democracy. Full of abuse and intimidation, and only a tiny tiny snapshot of voting. Winning a caucus of 1% of the voters in a red state is not exactly encouraging for the GE.


by Catriley sez on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:13:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary and the actual popular vote (2.00 / 1)

Oh, and if you just include the Florida Beauty Contest and not the Michigan beauty contest, Obama still leads in the votes.

But then, you're including a contest that doesn't count and leaving out four that do because you cannot tellme the popular vote in Maine, Iowa, Nevada, and Washington.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:26:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Don't count the vote, don't co ..." (none / 0)

Obama is making a huge mistake.


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:37:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Don't count the vote, don't co ..." (none / 0)

I am not Obama.

And when you can tellme the popular vote count in Maine, Nevada, Iowa, and Washington, I'll agree the popular vote deserves to be looked at.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 06:16:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Your lying (2.00 / 2)

And as a Floridian here is how I know someone knows nothing about the Florida Primary: they claim that Obama campaigned there.

And I tell my fellow Floridians this and there reaction is always the same: he DID?  Must have missed that...

I am frankly sick and tired of people repeating bald faced lies.  He didn't campaign by in Florida by any reasonable definition of the word.  When polled recently a whopping 28% of the state Democrats want the current Florida Delegation.  


by fladem on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:45:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not a chance in hell (2.00 / 1)

Your best bet is to have a re-vote in both states.  In that scenario, I think Obama wins MI and loses FL by 10 points.


by bigdcdem on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:14:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're lying (2.00 / 1)

Multitudes of Floridians saw the ads in florida, and the OBama campaign explained it as being unable to cut them out of a national buy (which is ODD since the other candidates were able to.) He also had bus ads as well.  


by Catriley sez on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:14:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're lying (2.00 / 1)

You are lying.

The voters in Florida do NOT WANT THOSE DELEGATES SEATED BECAUSE there was no campaign.

But you don't care.  You simply repeat lies.


by fladem on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:39:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But Hillary did get 50% of the popular vote (none / 0)

The number of caucuse states one has won also does not determine the winner.  In the end, the winner will have to have Super Delegates.  And the winner will have won Florida and MN.  


by macmcd on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:45:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But Hillary did get 50% of the popular vote (2.00 / 1)

Cool, because Obama won MN. The results were Obama 142,109 votes or 66.4% and Clinton 68,994 votes or 32.2%. This resulted in 72 delegates for Obama and 48 for Clinton.

Nobody has won Florida,and the way things are going it looks like nobody will because they cannot seem to agree on how to hold a legitimate contest under the rules.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:53:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe your #3 would work if (none / 0)

it were winner-take-all on a state-by-state basis.  Which it isn't.  But since you want to use the notion taht the delegation formats were to mimic the EC and provide a candidate more likely to win, let's consider which candidate has "won" the most electoral votes so far.

Leaving Florida IN because all candidates were on the ballot, but leaving Michigan OUT because Obama wasn't on the ballot - Clinton has 246 votes and Obama has 196.


by Montague on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:53:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Erroneous on its face (none / 0)

YHou left Florida in, ergo, your argument is based upon an erroneous assumption.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 06:46:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Nope (none / 0)

Florida will be counted, even if re-voted. But for the sake of argument, even removing the 27 votes of Florida, she is STILL significantly ahead.


by Montague on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:04:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (1.33 / 3)

Don't want her as VP, no way, no how. Don't want Clintons anywhere near the White House again.
by Becky G on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:08:20 PM EST

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (1.25 / 4)

Agreed. We democrats need to make it clear.

No.
More.
Clintons.

Or any of their DLC ilk.


by Cheebs on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:15:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 4)

12,421,316    Democrat voters (without FL and MI) do not agree with you.


by JoeySky18 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:20:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 1)

They aren't the majority of the party.  Nor the majority of the voters so far. Most voters didn't vote for her, they voted Obama.


by Cheebs on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:30:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 1)

so you are dismissing 47% of the voters.


by JoeySky18 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 08:31:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 2)

Is the FreeRepublic closed tonight?


by Catriley sez on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:15:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 1)

Do not need Clinton as VP.


What would LBJ do?
by Socks The Cat on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:09:19 PM EST

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 1)

If that's the case, after this record breaking turn out in primary, Democrat party might have the lowest turn out in general election.


by JoeySky18 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:22:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 2)

DemocratIC Party.  Republicans try to pull that Democrat Party crap.


by bmk589 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:58:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (1.83 / 6)

He's built a lot of his appeal on arrogance. His supporters are having fun hatin' on Clinton and Obama has encouraged that from the 1984 commercial on.

I don't think any of Hillary's supporters want him on the ticket either.


by Little Otter on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:09:22 PM EST

Arrogance, eh? (1.50 / 2)

That really hurst coming from Miss Inevitability supporter.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:16:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 3)

Hillary supporters might not like it, but they need to recognize that he has 50% of the DEM voters who support him.  The opposite is true for Obama supporters.  


by JoeySky18 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:23:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mocking (2.00 / 1)

the mocking, as you call it, was about the audacity of offering the leading candidate a VP position when you are in second place.  Obama did not turn down the spot for all time--just said that it was an inappropriate time to offer it.  If, at the end of this process, he is in the lead and offers Hillary the spot I don't imagine she will have any difficulty accepting.  The same applies if Hillary makes the offer after winning pledged delegates.  And for the record, I agree with you -- a unity ticket would be the best bet for the Dems.  Lets settle who the top of the ticket will be first, thats all I'me saying.


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:09:36 PM EST

Re: Mocking (2.00 / 3)

She didn't "offer" it. It was mentioned. Why are all the OBama fans getting their panties in a wad over this?  This faux outrage is Rove-worthy.


by Catriley sez on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:16:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mocking (none / 0)

"Instead of touting and mocking Hillary offer" The original poster characterized it as an offer. I was just mirroring her terminology. I'm not outraged-- I just think its silly. Let Hillary win before she offers a VP spot to anyone.
by DreamsOfABlueNation on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:55:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton wins this one (2.00 / 4)

This VP ticket thing is another example of how ineffective the Obama campaign has been in this contest.

1.  The Hillary camp is still dictating the debate.

  1.  They're planting the seeds for the upcoming convention battle, when there will be lots of discussion of a unity ticket.
  2.  The Hillary camp knows that there's been a general feeling (I don't know if it still exists, but it was alive for a while) that Obama is young, and could wait 8 years to become president, while Hillary is 61 this year.
  3.  The Hillary offer, no matter how "fake", at least pretends to reach out to the other side;  Obama should have played this game by joking with reporters (and in his rallies) that he'd be glad to join the unity ticket, with him on top.  Instead, he's sounding annoyed, saying it's premature, etc..  He should regain his sense of humor, his sense of confidence.
  4.  While all this Clinton/Obama dream ticket is being talked about, there's absolutely no talk of an Obama/Clinton ticket.  Again, Hillary's camp is doing its job to float the former in the electorate ether; Obama on the other hand is simply reacting.

Advantage Hillary on this one.


by Sieglinde on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:15:17 PM EST

Re: Clinton wins this one (2.00 / 1)

Oh yes, like everything else this is GOOD FOR HILLARY!!


by mainelib on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:17:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton wins this one (1.66 / 3)

Not everything ... but this one certainly is, in my opinion.

Care to share your opinion?  Or are you just going to "cry" in your corner-- "Hillary is a monster!"


by Sieglinde on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:25:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton wins this one (2.00 / 2)

Given that he will have a 100-150 delegate lead entering PA, despite the fact that he entered the race a massive underdog, I can only imagine how well he'd be doing if his campaign was "effective" would he have been declared President for life after bringing about World Peace, developing a clean, green fuel and curing AIDS? Man, if only Obama could have run with the mastery adn professionalism of Hillary Clinton?!


by Socraticsilence on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:23:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton wins this one (1.75 / 4)

Your massive density astounds me.  I'm commenting on this current point-- specifically about this VP thing.  I'm giving this one to Hillary.  I commented on the effectiveness of Obama's campaign in the last couple of weeks.

I don't know how you could argue that they've been effective recently.  Losing TX and OH (supposedly the "final blow", as the New York Times characterized it), losing the momentum, losing on NAFTAgate, on Rezko, on Samantha Power.  And the press is now turning "fair" on him, after months of a "free pass".

Then, this VP squabble is yet another example of how the Obama campaign hasn't yet regained its footing since Tuesday.


by Sieglinde on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:29:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He won Texas. (none / 0)

by 3 delegates.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:41:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton wins this one (none / 0)

I think you're wrong about that last point.

Obama won a caucus -- in which the complete trifecta of Clintons furiouslya campaigned -- by 20 points.

Obama regained his national poll lead.

Obama has continued to add superdels.

Obama got great press all over the nets tonight for his "I'm not running for VP" speech (with an assist to the inconsistency of the VP and c-in-c lines)

Even the weekend's kitschy story -- that the sweet little 3 am girl is actually Casey Knowles, Obama precinct captain -- was egg on Clinton's face.

You may still feel good about your 8-delegate gain of last Tuesday, but the nation has moved on.


Take back the Court!
by NewHavenDave on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:41:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton wins this one (none / 0)

Two possible reasons for this:

1)  She thinks people won't notice that she is in second place if she pretends she is in first place and offers Obama the VP spot.

2)  She thinks more people will vote for her thinking they can get Obama too as VP.

Obama cleared both up in his speech in MS.  

1)  He is the one in the lead.

2)  He is running for president, not Vice President.  People cannot get both, they have to make a choice.


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:53:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton wins this one (none / 0)

I found Hillary's floating of the VP issue to be patronising, cynical and opportunist.  She hasn't done herself any favours with the waverers.

(Disclosure - I'm not eligible to vote, but would support either candidate)


by interestedbystander on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 07:09:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

sure...., or you know (2.00 / 2)

she just sounds ridiculous offering a VP spot to them men with current delegate and popular vote lead.

And he is perfectly willing to let her maker that statement.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:41:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton wins this one (none / 0)

I don't know about that. The Clinton campaign is throwing a lot at Obama these days-and not much is sticking. This week is the VP discussion, if that doesn't work I can assure you that next week she will go back to bashing Obama and trying to make herself experienced next to McCain. To be honest I think the Obama camp is taking it's time sorting through all of these ridiculous comments that Hill is spitting daily nowadays, and waiting to take it's shot.
Obama is in MS today. His latest stump talks about how Hillary doesn't think he can answer the phone, but wants him a heartbeat away from the presidency.
Meanwhile, Hillary has been in PA for the last two days. You want to know why Hill is going to lose by more than 20 points tomorrow? Because she doesn't campaign in all 50 states, and lets Obama do his thing uncontested. Meanwhile, she is going to spend $$ in PA and only win by 10 points max.

Then she is going to wonder why she can't bite into his delegate lead.


A PROUD Hopium user!
by xodus1914 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:17:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yea (2.00 / 1)

they are running a great campaign.

Wait, who is ahead in the delegate count?

That's right, the incompetent campaign - the one that hasn't fired their campaign manager.


by fladem on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:47:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (none / 0)

"Hillary has done her part to unit the party."

Then why did Bill Clinton say that the offer was just "politics"?


by mainelib on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:15:26 PM EST

It was a Bad Move (2.00 / 3)

Hillary's been asked repeatedly about having him on the same ticket (they don't get same treatment in press don't you know at least for now anyway) and she's consistently offered the unifying position.

Why can't Obama just be classy about it?  Perhaps she could be my VP-- he could say.  Or, we're going to have this contest now and in the future we will have a united party but the way we'll arrive on that is being decided right now.

How about anything classy?  Instead, he's picked a dirty, low road.  He's said it's "bamboozling."  

It's not bamboozling, and for him to say so is disgraceful, deliberately racial, and I think long run-- it's going to be a problem with Clinton voters like me who see it as a slap in the face of a very fine lady making a reasonable offer that could have been treated with a reciprocal offer or a polite decline.


by chieflytrue on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:20:28 PM EST

Re: It was a Bad Move (2.00 / 1)

What is bamboozling is saying on the one hand that he doesn't have the credentials to be president and then saying that maybe he should be vp.

No one would argue that you should pick a vp nominee who you think shouldn't be vp.

Thus if he's qualified to be vp, then he's passed "the test" to be president.

Wolson just made the whole contradictory mess worse today by saying that by the time of the convention Obama might be qualified to be vp. But that would mean that he's also qualified to be president -- according to the standard view of vp and the view put forth by Bill Clinton in 1992.


by mainelib on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:28:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A VP gains experience-- nobody who (2.00 / 2)

isn't for Obama can see it any other way.

In case you don't know your recent American history, VP's are the strongest contenders for President.  George H. W. wasn't ready to run before being Reagan's VP, but he was ready afterward--to run anyway.

But VP's can get what Obama hasn't got, and desperately needs.

They've worked in the White House, made contacts abroad, and gained that kind of experience the most unique First Lady since Eleanor Roosevelt has gotten in a less traditional way.

It's not only NOT an insult that she would offer him the running mate role (considering how close and how effective Al Gore was with Bill Clinton), it's an absolute honor.

Anyone but a few real shortsighted idiots around here knows offering someone a VP spot isn't the Presidency, but it's the highest honor and respect you can show another candidate.   He wouldn't have to be Ready on Day 1 as VP.

But the real Point as to our Future--UNDERSTANDING HEALING now or never:

With the Party developing the deep divisions that are coming up Obama could offer her a VP role, someone who says he is uniquely able to bring people together has to show it now.  Otherwise, he can't.  

You don't have to heal divisions with your friends, you have to heal divisions with people after hard fought fights.  If you can't do that among Democrats, how are you supposed to show the 1000 year old Sunni/Shia division how they can reconcile?

Obama could reach out to her voters like me instead of slapping us in the face by saying  "we're all in this together and we'll see how it plays out in the end, but for now there are a few more contests ahead."  Just show some class.  Any bit of class.

As Howard Dean himself said, the only way we'll LOSE this election for sure is if the candidates don't figure out a way to work this out.

Well, lay some groundwork.  

Instead----

Every time Hillary's asked about him as a VP she says it's going to be a well contested fight but she'd be happy if that's where this ends up.  He keeps saying-- I can win her voters with or without her.

I'm telling you, it's not true.  He won't win Hillary's voters with or without her.  He's unprepared to lead because he's alienating his fellow Democrats, and like the totally imperfect Howard Dean says, it's the road to Losing.  And Obama is heading us there.


by chieflytrue on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:00:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A VP gains experience-- nobody who (2.00 / 1)

Forget this crazy idea of a split ticket. He is going to be the nominee and he isn't going to offer her the VP slot.

He won't offer it to her because she, like McCain, voted to get us into Iraq.  She, like McCain, voted for more saber rattling on Iran.

If he put her on his ticket he would be handing the election to McCain in November.

I know Clinton supporters want a split ticket but it isn't going to happen.


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:00:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A VP gains experience-- nobody who (none / 0)

Your grasp of history is appalling.

I'm a fan of neither Reagan nor Bush I -- but to claim that Bush somehow was the one needing "experience" under Reagan in 1980 is nonsense.

Reagan was a governor - Bush I had served in congress, as ambassador the UN, in a diplomatic post in China, and as director of the CIA.

Whatever their policies - to claim that Reagan was somehow "more fit" or "more ready" to be President, from a foreign policy perspective, than Bush I in 1980 is just dumb.


by zonk on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 09:41:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A VP gains experience-- nobody who (none / 0)

Should be "NOT a fan of..."


by zonk on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 09:42:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Because it was a BS offer (2.00 / 1)

and he was right to reject it out of hand.


by fladem on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:48:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hilarious (2.00 / 2)

First the Clinton's denigrate Obama and tell the voters that their children aren't safe with him as CINC - but apparently that's good enough to be VP?

The Clinton's have showed absolutely no inclination to put party unity above their own immediate interests.


by highgrade on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:26:51 PM EST

Re: hilarious (none / 0)

And there's nothing classy about that!


by mainelib on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:28:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

it's disgusting (2.00 / 2)

It's absolutely amazing to me the level of restraint that Obama, and most of all, his supporters, have shown towards the Clinton's. It's been documented that his campaign wanted to hit the Clinton's hard very early, but that Obama declined.

If Obama attacked the Clinton's (un)truthfulness as hard as they've attacked his readiness to be CINC, it would be a completely different game today.  


by highgrade on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:44:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: it's disgusting???? (2.00 / 3)

The most divisive comment to date is Obama's (more than once) stated comment that Hillary's supporters will vote for him but his will not vote for her.  That's restraint???  Then his wife says she doesn't know if she would vote for Hillary either.  That is what split the Democratic party right down the center. How audacious.  How insulting.


by The Smoldering Crone on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:55:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: it's disgusting???? (2.00 / 1)

That's the most divisive comment so far? That's not even in the top 10!


by mattw on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:45:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: it's disgusting???? (2.00 / 1)

This is one of the dumbest comments of all time.

Please look up the word "causality" and then hit yourself in the head with your computer until you see how ridiculous that post was.

Two comments, and the Democratic Party was torn asunder.  Right.


UNITY!
by The Great Gatsby on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:04:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: it's disgusting???? (none / 0)

Michelle did not say she wouldn't vote for Clinton, she was asked if she would campaign for her and she said she would think about it.

Geez, this is like one of those games from kindergarten where you whisper something into the ear of the person next to your and it goes all around the room.  When it reaches the end you compare what the first person said with what the last person heard and everyone laughs about how much it changed.


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:03:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

replied upthread (none / 0)


by chieflytrue on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:01:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

OK How Does Obama Unite the Party (2.00 / 3)

Specifically how does he reach out to the nearly half of Democrats who voted for Hillary? Don't see any way to do this. Nor can I imagine what would do it for me. Maybe Obama will just run with his faction. Let's see how that works.


by DaleA on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:33:23 PM EST

you know I can say (2.00 / 1)

EXACTLY same thing about Clinton


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:42:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK How Does Obama Unite the Party (2.00 / 1)

At least recognize this: it will be harder still for Clinton to win over the 50% opposite her if she has to subvert the delegate process in order to put in herself in that position in the first place.


Take back the Court!
by NewHavenDave on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:44:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK How Does Obama Unite the Party (2.00 / 3)

Because, and this may surprise you, most of the supporters of both candidates are Democrats.  We wrestle, cajole, hurl insults, etc. to try to get our primary candidate nominated but if we fail, we take it on the chin.

And here's a real shocker! Most of us have voted for Democrats in the past when neither Hillary nor Obama were running.  And we will vote for Democrats again in the future too.  


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:08:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 0)

Obama is simply pandering to the ABH vote---He has to keep acting as though he's outraged and hates her.  If he treats her decently, his base dries up.  Me thinks he'll be singing another tune once Hillary wins Pennsylvania, and the elders sit him down for a little chat.


by izarradar on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:39:04 PM EST

BS (none / 0)

He is currently up by 156 pledged delegates.

In fact Obama treating people decently is part of the appeal.

I still vote for Clinton in GE if she gets it but with her recent attacks she is not getting my vote in the Primary


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:44:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BS (2.00 / 2)

Obama has treated gay people like shit. Shoving exgay hate mongers in our face.


by DaleA on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:08:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I assume you have proof? (none / 0)

Or just spitting out venomous accusations.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:14:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I assume you have proof? (2.00 / 0)

Donnie McClurkin emceed a major event in SC despite the pleas of gays and lesbians not to do so. Then came Kirbyjohn Caldwell in Houston. Both prominent 'exgay'. This was extensively diaried here.


by DaleA on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:02:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

please answer my reply below. n/t (none / 0)


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 05:58:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I am assuming you also hate Hilalry for enlisting (2.00 / 1)

support of anti-gay people like Harold Mayberry, Darrell Jackson,

They are also black preachers who are anti-gay.

Read up: http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/10/24/162 436/74

See personally, I see this as attempting to bring people together and talk. If both gay and anti-gay people are part of either candidate coalition, at some point the will be forced to reconcile some points, at the very least the "live and let live" philosophy.

I condone neither Clinton nor Obama for this.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:21:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary just did a big LGTB round table the (2.00 / 1)

other day, Ellen came out in support of her, she rocked the LOGO debate.  She's for gays.  She says not for marriage "yet" but she is so far ahead of any of the candidates on understanding the issues.

She explained the reason for DOMA-- which was a part of a fight after the Bush ballot initiatives to keep the Republicans from their stringent Marriage Amendment which they fully intended to pass when they had both houses and the Presidency.

Hillary is not afraid to openly show her support for gays, she's not afraid to strategize against endless Republican attempts to demonize and marginalize gays, and she won't stay out of pictures with gays, or have "recovered" gays spouting trash on her campaign.

I love Hillary, she really supports universal human rights and making real changes that will improve people's lives.  


by chieflytrue on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:10:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

the previous poster said (2.00 / 1)

Obama is basically anti gay because of soem of teh anti-gay preachers that worked with him.

I showed the same is true of hilary.

I personally do not think Hillary or Obama are anti gay.

But the the poster I was replying to seems to think Obama was.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 05:57:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BS (1.50 / 2)

His sneery, dismissive, mocking, sexist put-downs of Hillary at every opportunity is certainly part of his appeal to me.  Listen to his words and his tone, instead of the media spin, and then tell me he's dignified, fair, and respectful.  Or perhaps his arrogance just pales so much compared to Olbermann and Matthews that he looks decent.


On to the Convention Floor!
by oh puhleeze on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:07:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

sorry but you're dreaming (none / 0)

Are the supers going to choose Hillary knowing that much of the excitement and many of the Obama's voters sit out if they see a back room deal forcing Obama to accept VP? Or are they going to sit down and tell the Clinton's that the Democratic Party appreciates everything they've done for the country and the party, but that we must move on, and that there is a Senate Majority leadership or a governor's seat in NY available? The kind of excitement and increase in voter participation that we're seeing doesn't happen every 4 years - the supers are not crazy enough to miss this train.


by highgrade on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:54:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: sorry but you're dreaming (none / 0)

I know the answer to that one (raises hand).  No, they aren't.

The Clinton supporters are still hanging on to the hope that she will somehow pull this off or that maybe Obama will pick her as VP.  No amount of logic or critical thinking is going to change their minds at this point.  


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:15:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (none / 0)

Wow.

Now that's delusional.

If you think Obama, through 38 states, has managed to amass a 100-150 delegate lead by pumping out some sort of ABH vote -- then she SHOULD drop out.  


by zonk on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 09:45:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (1.33 / 3)

obama the rookie got played by bill clinton, the best democratic politician in living memory (for those of you too young to remember lyndon).

obama took the bait, and now looks like the source of all the negativity to people only now tuning in to the election (i.e., most of the electorate). spit that hook out, barack.


by campskunk on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:59:45 PM EST

ah yes, (2.00 / 1)

wild conjecture and wishful thinking.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:04:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama doesn't want to be (none / 0)

Hillary's VP.

I don't blame him. Better that Obama just go back to the Senate if he doesn't win the nomination.


by puma on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:13:19 PM EST

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 1)

Agree with OP.  John Kerry also mocked Clinton's offer but then, he's an idiot.  

Responsible party leaders should be guiding both linton and Obama to recognize the importance of a united ticket, with pres. nominee to be determined by the process.  

One positive outcome is that they would "get" quickly that they can't keep trashing each other without ultimately hurting their own chances of winning in November.


by Thaddeus on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:18:53 PM EST

Re: Agreed-- Kerry's just one of those (none / 0)

mocking that offer because they wanted that offer.

But you're so right, the responsible leaders are going to have to push this in the right direction for the party.

On either side, can you imagine one not winning but getting roughly half the delegates-- and then telling the other one's delegates and voters that the VP is going to be somebody else?

We all have our hopes right now about the opposite person dropping out, and that's where we should be right now, but we need one eye on unity even as we fight this out to the end.

And it's going to take cool heads.  And having candidates keep from looking like they will never accept the idea.


by chieflytrue on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:17:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 1)

Whats with all this talk of a "dream ticket" anyway?  What does Hillary add to an Obama ticket other than shoring up a base that Obama will carry anyway?  Plus, it destroys his message of "change" and moving on with a new generation in politics.


by XoFalconXo on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:21:28 PM EST

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 2)

women, seniors, latinos, white southerners... to name a few.


by costanoan on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:47:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 1)

The Democratic portions of these demographics will vote for him anyway.  These are core Democratic constituencies.

The person bringing new people into the process is Obama.  A much better choice for him for Veep would be someone like Jim Webb, who (1) is from a swing state that Obama polls well in, (2) who can help shore up his military gravitas, and (3) complements his "change" theme instead of dampening it.


by XoFalconXo on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:55:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 1)

I don't think that's a safe assumption.  For example, I think a lot of female swing voters would pick Hillary if she's the nominee, but would give McCain a shot otherwise.  And remember latinos can be swing voters too.  McCain is liberal on immigration by Republican standards and could swing over many socially moderate/conservative latinos who would otherwise pick Hillary.  Senior swing voters also are likely to pick McCain over Obama, whereas Clinton could be more competitive in that demographic.


by costanoan on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:44:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (none / 0)

Yeah... let's ask the Democrats from 2000, 2002, and 2004 how well playing the "But, I'm to the right of the base in my own party!!!!" plan worked.


by zonk on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 09:48:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Offers a WHOLE lot (2.00 / 1)

Experience, the amazing coalition mentioned above, big state wins, and change....please.  You'd have double the change.  

Millions of women, even Republican women, will certainly see it that way.  

And if their policies are so similar, why are you worried that Obama wouldn't be able to do something miraculous he would have done otherwise?

There's plenty of work to be done in this country.  Let's get these people to realize it's time to get our own party together if we want to see this country going back in the right direction.


by chieflytrue on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:22:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Offers a WHOLE lot (none / 0)

One last shot at this.  Women are NOT a voting block.  We vote for the candidate we prefer regardless of sex.  Do you think we have been sitting home all this time not voting because there wasn't a woman on the ticket?

And here's another little tidbit - many republicans do not like McCain, many republicans do not like Hillary (women, men, whatever) and many of those republicans do like Obama.

As for Democratic women, we vote Democratic.


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:21:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Offers a WHOLE lot (none / 0)

Great.

Call on Clinton to concede and I  can promise you that she'll be on the veep shortlist.

No promises, but she'll get strong consideration.


by zonk on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 09:49:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 2)

I am glad he refused being on the ticket.


by Fleaflicker on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:28:48 PM EST

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 2)

So am I.  It frees up Clinton to pick a qualified running mate when she gets the nomination. :)


by costanoan on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:48:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (none / 0)

Mojo for cheerful, wishful thinking.


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 03:22:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 1)

Once she is the nominee, she will no longer feel obligated to ask BO as he has already turned down the offer.


Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime
by gunner on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:24:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary will be McCain's VP (1.50 / 4)

How can Obama offer Hillary the VP slot when she is so clearly running to be John McCain's VP.


by chatters71 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:47:33 PM EST

Re: Hillary will be McCain's VP (2.00 / 2)

cite?


by costanoan on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:49:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (none / 0)

Hey, did Hillary actually offer the running mate poition to Obama?  I know she and Bill have talked about it as a possibility, and said it might be a good thing, but did they actually offer it?  Or is this just yet another example of innacurate media reporting?


by costanoan on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:51:02 PM EST

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (none / 0)

That's exactly what I've been wondering. She said that she believes that she should be at the top of the ticket, but that would be for voter to decide. I don't know if it was really an "offer."


by HillaryKnight08 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:59:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Inaccurate (2.00 / 2)

reporting is my first guess too.  Except with a real backstory.

Everything I've seen was just reporters asking her (not him, you notice, and it's time someone asked him so I'll know if he's a jerk or not a jerk) if she would consider having him on the ticket.

And she's consistently been open to it.

One more note though, I have heard (not seen reporting) that Dean has been trying to get them to meet and work it out because he feels they're speding hundreds of millions of dollars, wasting all this money, and visibly tearing the party apart which he believes looks like the only way we'll lose.

Anyway, Hillary has shown signs of readiness to begin putting out feelers and that's what you do at this stage.  He could show some respect because to her voters, it sounds like he's saying he's too good for her.  He doesn't respect her coalition, or as he basically said "I can get her voters with or without her."  Of course, it's not true.


by chieflytrue on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:32:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

slight nitpick (2.00 / 1)

because this bugs me a lot and because it is the same way the righties like to refer to the Democratic party. They like to emphasize the "rat" part.

It is the Democratic party, not the Democrat party.


Washington Woman
theocracywatch.org
EENR Blog
by kevin22262 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:11:21 AM EST

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (none / 0)

Hillary should pick Harold Ford and be done with Obama


by rossinatl on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:24:38 AM EST

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 1)

Oh, good choice, why not Lieberman while your at it, or hey if its the black thing and you want a winne rwith similar views to Ford, JC Watts.


by Socraticsilence on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:40:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (2.00 / 1)

This is a joke, right?


by leshrac55 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:43:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Refused The VP Ticket (none / 0)

No thanks.  He supported TN's anti-gay constituional amendment.


by costanoan on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:44:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

<